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Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts

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Post # 00000533
Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: angryatthwrld
Remote Name: 24.250.54.197

Comments
I am the stepmother of a 9 yr old girl who has over time been programmed to resent her father. All the signs of alienation have been present, I kept a journal until her father took over. At first he blamed himself, sometimes still does, for the loss of connection with his child. I have seen her go from a loving, naive child to a manipulating pawn in her mother's attempts to alienate her. She cannot fully conceive all that is wrong with her mother's behaviors and neglect, and by the time she realizes it, she may already be ruined. I am remorseful in the fact that no matter how much I interceded, having her father get her into counseling, maintaining a journal, seeking legal aide; she is slowly being lost in the grips of her mother's alienation and am watching her father slowly give up hope. I have kept him informed, by personally learning a lot from these websites and passing information to him, and fear he has realized too late that his lack of pro-active preventative measures now have him facing the unimaginable, a complete loss of his daughter (not that it's all his fault, the courts have helped this matter). His ex took off with their daughter this weekend, it's his visitation weekend. She didn't call to tell him, she came home early and took her daughter away, her son hid in the house the entire hour that we waited in the car for her to show, occassionally blasting his radio or peeking out the window, and he didn't tell us she wasn't coming (we call when we arrive, and beep the horn, instead of going to the door as she has once filed bogus restraining orders against my husband). Usually when she's trying to get over on his time, she calls with a lame excuse like "I just remembered I was on vacation and we had plans" or the like, each more disbelievable than the next as she doesn't call in advance, ever. She takes her daughter in a preplanned manner (ie: keeping her out of school, or coming home from work early just to beat us to the pick-up). She didn't leave a messaage this time, and I know the son called her because he's the sentinal for her ongoing tactics and reports in as we call, or show, etc. I don't know if she'll return, as she has threatened and even attempted to go into hiding with their child. I fear this will be the final burden of proof that the courts here in RI need to realize that they, once again, let a child slip through the cracks of the term "best interest of the child". Even with an Ex-parte order for her own neglect, she was returned custody. The ex has 2 sons from 2 other men, and each has become a menace to society, never graduated, unemployed, with children of their own by the age of 19. I see little reason for hope that their daughter isn't on the same path, thanks to her mother's neglect and manipulative tactics. When are the courts going to wake up and smell the reality of P.A.S. in so many cases where the father has proven himself capable of being there for his children, both financially and emotionally, after all, when a man goes into a lawyers office, he's admitting he needs help. When he hears "You'll probably only get joint custody", he still fights for primary custody, and when they say, going to court may increase your support payments because you'll have to do a new financial breakdown, he responds with, "I dont care, I just want to see my child." Would an incompetent person or person of little character be able to go through with this battle if his reasons were other than for the "best interest of his child"? From the start all odds are stacked against him and support comes only from fathers in similar situations. I'm tired and there are no support groups close to here that I'm aware of. I could go on and on just as a witness to this whole mama-drama, but I'm sure you all have your own real life mama-drama going on and share similar experiences that all tally up to little support for the fathers who swim upstream to see their children. Thanks for listening.   (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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REPLIES:

Post # 00000537
Re: Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: 
Remote Name: 69.34.32.83

Comments
You are not alone. After a ten year battle with my ex and his bipolar obsessive wife, I have lost my two children. They woke up one day after 12 years and said they didnt "want to see me any more" and they "always felt this way". I was dumb struck and in denial for two years. Now I believe it!! This web sight has been a god send, and I hope to get the word out to more people who are going thru the same things. The courts backed me, but the brainwashing was too much for me to counter. I finally ran out of money and patience. KB  (Last changed: February 26, 2006 )

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Post # 0000054b
Re: Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: centep@aol.com
Remote Name: 208.242.194.130

Comments
I am experiencing the exact same thing! I was married to my ex over 20 years, put him through med school. He was never a participating parent and my daughters and I simply did things alone. He ran off with the much older office help. Now they have convinced my 12 year old to say I was abusive and told the court I have personality disorders. The court let my daughter go live with them. They have convinced her to totally reject me. The court order both household analyses and we both took psychological testing. The report came back that he is alienating the child, and recommended she be returned, he pay for all the counseling and I have sole managing conservatorship if he couldn't behave. Instead the ex has hired another "expert" to refute the report and we go to court in January. My attorney says there are very few judges and juries that will take the action that is recommended and needed....so basically, I lost my daughter and I am screwed financially.....He tried to do this to my 8 year old, but the judge let me keep her. I know the ex will then try for her when she is 11 by giving her plenty of money and toys like he did the first and degrading me to the point I will not have any contact with the child I bore and raised myself! Life stinks!  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post #  0000055f
Re: Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: 
Remote Name: 148.183.241.13

Comments
I read your entry and can tell you that as a divorced father of 6 kids I have been through the same awful experience of your husband. Four of my six don't want to talk to me and have blamed me for the divorce. Their mother tells them that I left them, not just her. She has created a "Team Mom" environment that no child dares to defy. I'm back in RI Family Court again next month to try to get the court's attention to this...but, like your husband, I'm losing hope. People tell me "Don't worry, they'll figure it out when they get older." Too bad...in the meantime, I've lost touch with them in their formative years, and I'll never get that time back.   (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post # 00000570
Re: Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: angryatthwrld
Remote Name: 68.14.90.78

Comments
RI huh? Judge [last name removed]? We were told he would rule against us right off the bat, before we filed a motion. He did. Then the court appt psych told the courts that mom is a saint after only 1 hr. meeting. and mom managed to tick off the judge, so he gave her a stearn warning. Now we've filed contempt of court against her, and guess what, they delayed it 6 weeks for an available date, then continued it 6 more weeks because mom insists on retaliating with bogus charges on us. So, we're having a great time in the flushes of the RI court system ourselves. I'm still trying to figure out how that delay tactic works in the best interest of the children, and how the court doesn't recognize that each day in the life of a child is what molds them into who they become, the further delayed the action, then the worse off society becomes. It's the kids from these relationships who are tying up the courts today. The confused generation who learned manipulation and lying from their own parents. I'm disqusted with the whole situation, and my marriage is suffering.  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post # 00000571
Re: Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: angryatthwrld
Remote Name: 68.14.90.78

Comments
in time, time is how they're ruined.   (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post #  000005c8
Re: Ongoing Alienation Still Unrecognized by Courts
From: It is sad that this reply fits this ?
Remote Name: 70.104.235.100

Comments
I say this because my poor dillisional friend, you are in the "fog" stage I was. I actually asked CPS to be involved (I won't go into the HORROR of CASA "Court Annointed Childhood Assasins- more commonly reffered to a Court Appointed Childrens Advocates of which my Liberal Sister was one YET, found so repunant that after working for a year to train with and become an evaluator- left CASA because of their Governmental desicration of families- esp Dads & kids) There is no incentive in FACT there is great DIS-insentive for ANY Governmental branch- CPS & the courts and ALL of the peripharey "evaluation" groups involved. They lose funding if the "recognize" a problem in a female. Just do your research and you'll see it is painfully clear that their lively hoods depend on them opposing Dads AT ALL COSTS. At All Costs here means- THEIR childrens "roof, schools and freinds" depends on your children losing theirs, plain and simple. So they can decry mens groups bias' all they want- every bit of research coming out from the independents and the states warrants a crushing of our judiciary and CPS as they exist. Heck it has for 10 years, but certain "non male centered groups" and their supporters have held reform at bay. CHANGE WILL ONLY HAPPENS if YOU & I hold these racketeers up to public scrutiny and shame. If you and I won't hold them accountable- who shall?   (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post #  00000543
Re: On Alienation Unrec'd by Courts
From: kc
Remote Name: 207.224.56.120

Comments
Thank you, AATW. Its nice to hear from a woman who obviously understands what alot of us dads are going thru. I just dropped my daughter off with her mom a couple hours ago and I am damn near my wits end with this crap. And the very sad and tragic thing is; that nobody in the legal system that I have delt with up to this point seems to even want to acknowlege that there is harm being done to my daughter (and me). This includes the GAL who is supposed to be her advocate and promoter of her best interests. Nobody seems to have the time to deal with the real issue and investigate the origin of the problems. It is far too easy for the custodial parent to thwart any positive, constructive communication, and thereby facilitate continued alienation. And unless you have been in the situation yourself, or have spent significant time studying the phenomenon, you really can't understand just what type of position this puts the alienated parent in. Our hands are tied and voices are gagged; and even if they weren't, the ears of our children have been programmed against us. My daughter now hates me, and if you ask her why (as I have), she can't even explain it. She has dificulty answering direct questions and explaining things about the deterioration of our relationship. This, in my opinion, is very disturbing, and a big "red flag". Our society and our "System" is just unwilling and unequipped to open their eyes to and honestly admit this problem, so that we may then do something about it! Something needs to be change! SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!!!!!!!! kc  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post # 00000546
Re: On Alienation Unrec'd by Courts
From: angryatthwrld
Remote Name: 24.250.54.197

Comments
Exactly as you say. Constant influence over a child, constant negativity concerning the other parent, constant lies and an ongoing battering of the other parent only create a belief that's unjustified and the child really cant say WHY they feel that way or how it came about. But any retaliation would land you in court. So you take it, deny false allegations and hope that said child understands the truth of the situation. Now he and I are being 'counter-charged' with false allegations of alienation, because she's being charged with that in our current contempt of court order against her. She's looking to reverse it on us. My defense is that she has lied during the custody battle by telling her child that her stepmother is pregnant, just to make her feel unwanted by her dad. I'm not pregnant. And if mom tells daughter that daddy breaks all his promises, and daddy asks which ones? she cant answer, then you say, "well didn't your mom promise you a cat?" and "Didn't your mom promise you that she'd spend more time with you?" Then why dont you have a cat and where has mom been for 3 weeks? And when mom tells child "Daddy abandoned US", we refute with 'NO, daddy left mommy. If you could have been split in two he would have fought for all your stinky toes, but we couldn't break you into 2 people, so he let you stay with mommy because you were still in school and he didn't want you to have to change in the middle of the year" "Besides, all mommy and daddy do is fight, and staying there only made it worse for you. Arent you glad daddy is happy now, and isn't mom happier too?"... If any of that is alienation, I dont see it. Maybe had she not corrupted a childs mind to begin with, there would be no need for rebuttal or defense. Child told me that mom said stepmom was pregnant, I said, NO, where did you hear that? MOM said somebody??? at her work told her. I responded with, You're mom just got a new job and I dont know anybody she works with. That was Sunday. Well, that following Wednesday, it was a spontaneous chime-in during conversation, "OH< mom said she didn't hear that you were pregnant from work, but that daddys cousins told her (2 woman who I met only once, 5 months prior at a family dinner). I finally got annoyed with the topic and said, LOOK, I'm not pregnant, mom is obviously making this up because she cant even get her story straight, and nobody but nobody has any reason to believe that I'm pregnant because I"M NOT. so, inadvertantly I called mom a liar. What else are you supposed to say when mom keeps changing her lie of a story and child is chiming in reports when you really dont want to hear it again and again?! It was bogus the first time around, and it's only gotten more twisted each time she revised it. 'I told her that 'I believe that mom is telling you this because of the custody suit. She has no reason to suspect I'm pregnant, she keeps changing her story, and each time she leads you to believe that Somebody told HER, and the only thing I can see happening here is that MOM is trying to make you feel like you arent going to be wanted here if theres a new baby. That would never be the case and you'll always be wanted here.' ...It's things like that. I could say, No, I'm not and let it drop. But it came up again the following visit. How many times am I to refute before I finally end the game? I put a stop to it after the second mention of it. No need to go back and forth with this again and again. GAME OVER, now drop it. But I suppose that made me the bad guy. Lesson 1: Rebuttals for bogus lies make you guilty of the crimes committed by the one throwing the lies out to begin with. Lesson 2: Not responding to lies makes them true by default. Lesson 3: No matter how much you try or do not try, success in protecting your child from further hurt is never attainable. Lesson 4: Those who finally give in to the absence of their children, to spare their own sanity, are always blanketed with the guilt of not doing more. Lesson 5: There's always something more you can do, but at who's expense? In the end, it all gets foggy!    (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

 

 

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