Posts from former Discussion pages 

Grandparents: Variant on traditional PAS
Grandparents and Parents Differ on Parenting & Discipline

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Post #  000004c0
Grandparents: Varient on traditional PAS [sic= variant on]
From: croaker260@hotmail.com
Remote Name: 69.92.10.150

Comments
I am married to a wonderful lady, however our son (from her previous marriage) has been taken from us by grandparents. The stated claim is two fold: 1- That we are abuse I’ve to him. In short, Her grandparents and us (both of us) have very different views on discipline. We believe in it, they dont. It has been a source of constant contention even before I became involved in the family. BTW: Child protective services did a report, found no reason to get involved. 2- The grandparents report that we "medically neglect" citing that the child has ADHD and we refuse to get him treated or tested for it. They also believe that the child has a form of mental retardation called fragile X. The have also implied that he is schizophrenic and bi-polar. The legal basis of the abduction was based on a 6 year old emergency guardianship paper that my wife (who then was newly divorced) had made up. As she was planning on going into the military, she needed alternative guardianship in case of deployment. Incidentally she never when in, instead went straight to college and is now finishing her 2nd degree. Up until two weeks ago the guardianship paper was never implemented. Knowing the discord between the grandparents and parents, I think the Grandparents believed we were moving away (we were looking at career options). Anyway, while I was out of town fro an extended time on a family emergency The grandparents picked up our son under false pretenses, and refused to bring him back. When my wife confronted them, They threatened to have her removed for trespassing. When she returned with the police, they wouldn’t get involved w/o a court order, stating that the paper was in force until revoked in court. Our son has been caught in the middle, over at his grandparents he has what ever he wants (they are reasonably well off), a new four wheeler, a big farm, puppies, a BB gun, etc. He doesn’t have any limits to speak of, he is fed repeatedly sweets when ever he gets upset, etc. They have a makeshift bar in the barn, that they even let him "bartend" while they drink with their friends. In short, he hates the discipline, uses words like "dad beats me" in reference to spankings (incidentally I have spanked him perhaps 4 times in the past year, and always after other methods failed, never maliciously, and never left any marks at all) and always says stuff like "but grandma lets me do ..." and "Grandma consoles me when I ...." etc. It was too the point of having problems getting our son to wipe his bottom at 6years old, because grandma will wipe it for him at their house! Im not kidding!!! Now we are in court. The entire rest of the family is on our side. Note these are my wife’s relatives too. While not as fearsome as some cases of PAS, I think its here in any case. However instead of one divorced parent against another it is the grandparents against the parents, in the setting of perceived separation. What are your thoughts...Do you know of any court cases or similar stories?   (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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REPLIES:

Post # 000004cd
Re: Grandparents: Varient on traditional PAS
From: 
Remote Name: 64.136.26.235

Comments
Well, I have been dealing with PAS conducted on my daughter all her life. She is 14. My husband, technically a stepfather, but THE only father figure she has had, that she chose to call Daddy, has been accused more than one time by the grandmother. (It has been only recently - a year before (or less?) my daughter moved to the grandmother's behind my back (during GP visitation), that the biological father has had any time with her. This last time was a doosy because my daughter, through the brainwashing, does not know what is real or not real anymore. The grandmother had accused us of not taking care of her medically, while being a nurse, had brought her to her hospital every time she had a panick attack, and claimed she had asthma. Had obtained meds and given at least steroids to her, without our knowledge at the time - but it sure shows now in her development. Who knows what else. There has been so much more to the nightmare. When my daughter was in first grade, the grandmother tried to convince the teachers that she had ADHD, and mental problems, too. I feel that she did this to cover up what abuse she was doing. Also, she told her teachers and my daughter's class mates that my husband and I were dead. BTW - in the earlier years, when we were going to move up north to implement a business with our business partners by verbal agreement, I found myself taken to court, where the biological father did not show up the first time, the judge proceeded anyways. The grandmother's statements were in the petition - not the biological father's. Also, there was then a restriction placed on my daughter that she could not go out of seven southern california counties. (She was three then). I know the grandmother did this part to make sure that I would not suceed in becoming financially strong (I was only 19 then). What is happening currently is of the same. After I potty trained my daughter - the grandmother retrained my daughter to wear and pee in the pull ups. She later taught my daughter to pick a place in the living room, pull her pants down and pea (age 6) She cuts up her food (age 7) She reteaches basic education so that it is wrong - and my daughter gets mixed up and feeling stupid. (My daughter was truely a "child genious" for a three year old.) She new how to read at a fifth grade level, understood astronomy formulas by concept, not the formulas itself yet, knew how to add and subtract up to triple digit, knew her times tables up to 6, and started 2 digit division. She had great confidence until the grandmother messed with her. She lost her opportunity of advanced education from this, as well as a good confidence level throughout her life. Did the cops see the paper? Or were they told of the paper by the grandparents? The reason why I ask is because my daughter's grandmother had claimed she had custody when she never did to schools, doctors, dentists, and police, and got away with it. Be sure the police truely understand. Also, how and when was this paper filed. How was the paper worded? Does it indicate it was just for that time she thought she would be going? Also, how long ago was the original? Was it notorized? If it was just a paper, not notorized I would think it would not stand if you file against the grandmother on this. Especially if you were not notified of the such. Be sure to have the family that is on your side to give affidavits galore. It stands as a form of evidence, and also if there is journal entries. "Setting of perceived seperation" = Do you mean that they set up a situation to appear one way when it is another way? If so, fight this. Respond back with the absolute facts, of the history of how unhealthy the situation is. If this is a grandparent's rights case, then let it all out on paper of how detrimental it is to have them gain any visitation or custody - and how you two observed your son's changes in relation to what happened. Don't be afraid to say they are lying to gain custody of the child. If it is a guardianship case, how did he arrive there? Was it a matter of a lie conducted by the grandmother to pick him up from school? If so, depending on what is on the school papers, the school can be liable too. And, if you and the mother never dropped the child off to them, how could it be seperation - or any abandonment? It sounds like the grandmother is trying to get a "legal abduction" of your child by illegal manuevars. This is a PAS case conducted by a "third party", no matter what has been filed. I would mention how the grandmother "interferres with the parental bond" to the court - in the reponse. Keep me updated - my daughter is at her grandmother's right now due to false pretenses too. I am sure that the grandmother will try to pull something more on me too. Please email me: llcain@anotherworldportal.com Best of luck, and keep your heads up! Sincerely, Lynn    (Last changed: February 26, 2006 )

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The following posts are also about grandparents as alienators:

Post #  0000049c
pas by grandparents
From: mike@luckiestmanonearth.com
Remote Name: 68.83.15.170

Comments
On July 3rd last year when my sons mother died of cancer, his facist grandparents kidnapped him and inflicted Parent aleination syndrome onto him part of their religious jihad against my wife and I becuase we are not catholics. Despite the fact I have done nothing wrong, have zero criminal record, am a well respected financial advisor in cumberland county for 24 years, and a model father county Judge Edgar Bayley ignored both Pa and federal law and gave legal custody of my son to his kidnappers. He also barred me from even seeing my child who is a student at the Milton Hershey school whose corrupt adminstrators assisted the kidnappers after the fact. Please read my story at http://www.luckiestmanonearth.com and share it with others you think it will intrest. The constitutional right of all parents to raise their child as they see fit free of interference of family or the state was validated again in 2000 by the US supreme court in Grantville vs troxell, yet Pa courts routinely ignore this law of the land. Your prayers for the success of my pending legal appeal to regain custody of my child before the Pa superior court are most appreciated. God Bless you and be grateful everyday your family is normal by comparison. Michael "Woody" [last name removed], Mechanicsburg Pa  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post # 000004cc
Re: pas by grandparents
From: LL Wagner
Remote Name: 64.136.26.235

Comments
I have you in prayers! Good luck! I, too, had grandparent PAS issues to contend with about my daughter. Please feel free to email me at llcain@anotherworldportal.com  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Original
Post # 00000091
Alienation - Grandma's doing it
From: CindyB
Date: 3/29/01
Time: 3:51:16 PM
Remote Name: 168.191.182.25

Comments
I am a mother of a 6 yr old boy. The father got custody (mutual agreement - I could not afford proper legal counsel at the time of our divorce in 1996). The father works the night shift, my son basically "lives" with his Grandma. He will come to my house for a visit, and say things such as "My mamma (Grandma) says you are my birth mother - she is my mamma cause she takes care of me - not you." "I have two mammas." On one occassion, my son was screaming, in horror, that he didn't want to go to my house because he didn't want my husband to "beat him again." Oh- he is to call 911 if anybody spanks him - Grandma's orders. They never send an overnight bag - just the clothes on his back. I pick him up Friday at 6 pm, and take him to school on Monday morning. Have to go to court next month, ex wants to change the visitation back to standard - drop those 2 extra days a month so child support can go up. Does any of this sound like parent alienation, or is it all in my head? (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post #  000004c5
Re: Alienation - Grandma's doing it
From: L L Wagner
Remote Name: 64.136.26.235

Comments
Being that you have posted this a few years ago... I am in the hopes that you would check this currently. I have been through a 14 year battle with the paternal grandmother of my daughter. Please email me at llcain@anotherworldportal.com so we share our situations...  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

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Post # 0000009f
Re: Alienation - Grandma's doing it
From: Julie Hedden
Date: 5/10/01
Time: 11:12:27 PM
Remote Name: 165.247.185.62

Comments
I understand totally. My mom has custody of my 12 yr daughter for the past year and has PASed to the max. I am in the custody courts now. GAL sees child as being healthly and doing great in school etc, however my daughter was doing great before her grandma got ahold of her. Now my child calls me very bad names and is so programmed that she doesnot even want to see her dog.
If I can help email me at faithfully29605@yahoo.com If you just need to vent it is fine. It has been 409 days since I have seen my daughter

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Post # 000000bc
Re: Alienation - Grandma's doing it
From: Lacinda
Date: 6/29/01
Time: 3:07:11 AM
Remote Name: 216.26.16.155

Comments
Have you checked what your state guidelines are for NCP parenting time? In our state, the guidelines are 7pm on Friday and return to school on Monday, eow/eoh/summer 2wks alternating etc. So...he may not have a precedent to decrease your time with your child.  (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

 

Related post:

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Post # 00000457
Re: help please
From: Lynn
Remote Name: 64.136.26.235

Comments
Ella, this is so much later than when you posted - I hope that things have gotten better. My husband and I have been dealing with PAS with a twist. Its the grandmother on the biological father's side. The biological father originally abandoned her as a baby, and it has been the grandmother's obsession with her that has caused a lot of heartache and pain. (14 years). About your situation - be there for him and supportive. He needs to know that even though things feel helpless, he still has more choices that he realizes to handle the situation. Many "authoritive" figures would say that there is nothing that can be done. But there are things that can be done. The children need to be in therapy. Especially with a therapist who is trained in clinical and supportive therapy. Best of all would be a therapist who is known for dealing with PAS, and having been successful. If mom refuses for them to go through therapy, it may need to be court-ordered. Never give up hope.   (Last changed: February 26, 2006)

 

 

 

 

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